Tuesday, October 02, 2007

Not Within My Ambit


We recently changed phone service provider to Time Warner Cable, from Verizon, and I have to say the change has been worth it. You get free caller ID, free long-distance, and the call quality seems reasonable, much better than I was getting out of skype, which just seemed to result in me making heavy breathing calls to the ones I loved.

But I'm not here to talk about phone providers, I'm here to talk about electricity providers. See, with the change in phone provider came two calls from telemarketers. The second was from the Fraternal Order of Police, and since I like living dangerously I sent him packing with a flea in his ear.

But the first was from an outfit called Ambit Energy, wanting me to make them my electricity supply company or ESCO. New York, you see, has mandated full retail competition in electricity, which means you get to decide which company supplies you with electricity. Well, the incumbent utility, ConEd, supplies you with it, keeps owning the wires that carry it into your house, bills you, and still owns a fair bit of generating capacity in the city.

The ESCOs basically go out into the spot market for power, or contract for it, and then resell it to you using the billing infrastructure of ConEd. It's rather complicated, and kind of involves the consumer trusting the ESCO to be super smart at scoring its own electricity at a good price and passing on the savings to you. If you're asking questions like "how can you tell which electricity is yours, or the neighbours?'" or "how can you treat electrons like yoghurt or gasoline?" you're not trying very hard to understand the wonders of deregulation.

I, though, was very excited because I'd missed all of the reps that IDT Energy carpeted Brooklyn with earlier this year, and I've been itching to debate deregulation with them (I'm an electricity markets nerd). Unfortunately, the gentleman that spoke to me decided he would need to pass my questions on to a supervisor and I had some bolognese sauce burning, so we had to end it there.

So I googled them, and got a rather boilerplate website that listed the management but not the ownership and so forth. This, I'm starting to think, is fairly common for energy supply companies right now, a few guys in a room with a reasonably snazzy website, a background in selling phone service, and a bunch of unanswered questions about what generators they buy their electricity from and at what price.

To Ambit's credit, its representative said upfront they'd offer me a guaranteed 7% discount for the first two months, but didn't promise anything after that period. Moreover the company that sells them power, Coral Energy, is a subsidiary of Shell and, in my experience, a pretty smart bunch of guys. I probably would buy electricity from Shell, since it controls some pretty ginormous reserves of gas, one of the main fuels for power generation in New York City.

Then I did a blogsearch, and all manner of strange third-party websites came up, including a myspace page, and quite a few craigslist postings, including this one. I'm reproducing the text below:

AMBIT ENERGY HAS ARRIVED FOR NEW YORK CITY YOU CAN SELL ELECTRICAL POWER TO RENTERS AND HOMEOWNERS AND GET PAID RESIDUAL INCOME MONTH AFTER MONTH FOREVER FOR JUST ONE PERSON SWITHCHING YOU KEEP GETTING PAID AS LONG AS THEY KEEP PAYING THE ELECTRIC BILL!!!YOU SEE EVERYONE HAS TO HAVE ELECTRICITY!!!THIS ROCKS GO TO MY WEBSITE AND JOIN AS A CUSTOMER AND AS A MARKETING CONSULTANT SO YOU CAN SELL THE POWER AND GET PAID FOR IT www.powertripp.ambitenergy.biz

Visiting the above-mentioned site I see it has graphics that are very similar to Ambit's page, but a little note that the site is hosted by a private individual.

An investigation into IDT by the Consumerist highlighted the background of several of the sales reps for IDT in multi-level marketing, and some similar sales tactics to those used in multi-level marketing. But IDT, as far as I could tell, paid people commission for getting people to sign up to its service and that was that.

Ambit is fairly frank about embracing the direct sales model. It charges its consultants $399 to sign up, and another $19 a month for a website. I'm guessing that these fees will go some way to funding the 7% two-month discount.

I'm not certain that describing it as pyramid selling is not going to get me into trouble, so I'll just say this: if participants in a deregulated energy market seem to spend more time cooking up louche sales tactics than explaining how they are going to get hold of your electricity, you might want to rethink the whole thing.

The similarities with telecoms are non-existent. Firstly, you can live without telephone service, sometimes for months at a time. Then there's the fact that it's fairly east to get hold of flat rate telephone service plans, but a lot harder to do it for electricity. A bored and snotty jackass like yours truly can be bothered to ask questions about how an ESCO goes about doing what its being paid to do (note I didn't say business model, because I'm not sure that it's supplying electricity that's making Ambit's founders rich). What are the odds than anyone else wants to?

36 Comments:

At 10:49 PM, Blogger Felix said...

Well, there's really no risk of going without electricity service. If Ambit suddenly picks up sticks and moves to Panama, Con Ed will pick up the slack, as it were. The bigger risk is that after those first two months Ambit will just charge you whatever number comes into its head, and you, lazy old sod that you are (they hope), either won't notice or won't care enough to do anything about it (ie move to some other provider). So the worst-case scenario is really that you pay a bit more for your leccy than you otherwise would have done. And meanwhile, you're supporting your local neighborhood MSM scheme! Yay!

 
At 1:18 PM, Blogger Gringcorp said...

Yeah, for a consumer, particular a less dozy consumer, it's not the worst prospect imaginable, and if you think that you can keep tabs on your billing it might be worth the $10-20 you might save in that period. But the fact that ConEd is there to pick up the slack, and that most competitive supply companies have been reduced to these sales tactics gives me pretty huge doubts about the merits of deregulation.

 
At 12:30 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ambit Energy executives allow known scam artists in their organization:

http://www.bewareofbobpearson.blogspot.com/

NBC Channel 5 exposes Scam Artist, Bob Pearson
http://video.nbc5i.com/player/?id=115208

 
At 8:34 PM, Blogger David said...

the bob pearsons thing itself is spam...ie its a fake blog from a competitor. Check out http://www.ambitiousenergy.com this guy is doing something different.

 
At 9:22 AM, Blogger Gringcorp said...

Nope, either Ambit Energy has somewhere in a room in Houston the most super badass energy traders the world has ever seen (hint: they don't work for "home selling opportunities"), who are diligently working day and night to screw better prices from the region's power generators and pass them on to Ambit newbies, or it's using multi-level marketing revenue to subsidise teaser rates and the hell with customer churn.

You're right, though, your website IS better looking than most Ambit ones. I do hope they didn't charge you more for it. Need a bit of work on the typos, though.

 
At 9:56 AM, Anonymous SingDanceModelAct.com said...

I was discussing Ambit consultant fees,etc with my sales rep friend and she said something very important: No sales rep has to pay the company it works for hundreds of dollars to sell their product or service. Ambit energy requires each consultant to pay $389 to join their pyramid selling business. And that alone reads RIP OFF in big letters.

 
At 1:53 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

#1 - Ambit gauruntees 7% savings the first 2 months AND 1 - 2% after that in writing!
#2 - THe customers also receives a 3day 2 night hotel stay for trying Anbit
#3 - THere is no contract for service you can change whenever you want
#4 - on ConEd's bill it tells you that you can change and gives you a website to look at www.poweryourway.com that lists the ESCO's that have been licensed by the state.
#5 - As a customer of Ambit you earn travel reward points for every kilowatt or therm you use which can be turned in for vacation packages, airfare, etc.
#6 - It is not a pyramid it is network marketing which is not a scam and has produced many millionaires in this country
#7 - They have a five your contract with Shell
#8 - They pay their reps instead of spending millions of dollars advertising in the traditional sense.
#9 - The founders of the company are legit - one of whom is the grandson of the man who built 7-11.
Ambit is a reputable company and before going on and on with how much you tink you know about them you should do your research.

 
At 10:21 AM, Blogger Gringcorp said...

Let's take these in order, anonymous, and I'll leave the typos alone.

1) These are teaser rates. We know how well that turned out in the mortgage business.
2) For "trying" Ambit? You mean signing up? I dare say it's better than a free clock, though without knowing more details of the free travel it's hard to know whether the free trip is not a timeshare pitch or somesuch
3) Yes you can change when you want, though there is a contract, just not a long-term one. And in fact if you have the time or the energy to jump through all the administrative hoops, then you may make a couple of dollars in the short term.
4) Yes, it's called energy market restructuring. It's mandated by the PSC. Just because the PSC tells ConEd to include information about ESCOs in its bill doesn't make it a good idea, or ambit a winning proposition.
5) I can earn "loyalty points" for flying Delta. Doesn't mean I should fly with that terrible airline.
6) And just as many suckers.
7) This Coral Energy contract is one of the few appealing aspects of the entire set-up. Still, is it fixed-price? Where's Coral getting it's electricity from? More importantly, may I enlighten you about some of the duff above market long-term power contracts Coral signed during the boom in the US power market in the early part of this decade?
8) Weird, I thought it was the reps paying THEM.
9) "the grandson of the man who built 7-11" has genetically inherited power trading skills? No, though I'll grant you he possibly learned a great deal about franchising. Which means that it may be an awesome way for a few people at the top of the pyramid,, um, I mean network marketing organigram, to make money, but not a path to long-term energy savings.

"Which means that Ambit is a reputable company and before going on and on with how much you tink you know about them you should do your research."

A few freebies does not a reputable company make, though if you read my original post I stop far short of labelling it a scam. And if you read my post you will note that I tried to ask the telephone pitchman many questions about how they would realise these savings, but I got nowhere. If you'd like to enlighten me about how Ambit offers these savings except from "network marketing" revenue then please let me know.

 
At 12:12 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The idea that the "Bob Pearson" info is spam is a joke. It is not from a competitor or a made up story. The guy was featured on the 10 pm news for scamming thousands of people out of over a million dollars! He has $800k+ in liens and judgments against him. The lengths that you Ambit people will go to is ridiculous. At one point or another most large organizations will have a bad apple in the crop. It's better to just admit that this guy was part of the Ambit crop and move on than try to deny his existence. If you call the Ambit Customer Service center they won't deny he was affiliated with Ambit.

 
At 5:10 AM, Anonymous the truth said...

okay, i went to the place to check it out. All the things everyone is saying is a debate, yet very true, yet seemingly false. There are fees when starting, and you really dont make much money out it. In the LONG TERM though, it pays off as you make your own pyramids, and its a process that takes time, starts annoyingly slow, but has potential to rise above expectations. Now the elements of surprise can catch everyone in a state of either success or failure. This company promises much, but does not show how any of it is done. They just say bring the clients, and they speak with other people, who do all the other stuff. Therefore these consultants are limited as of actually knowing what actually happens here, as well as the critics of this page. There is much to speculate, yet if you actually go there, it is so pyramid scemeish, yet it's not, since the consultant benefits are a reality. I actually spent time with a SENIOR consultant (there is a chain of consultants, JUST LIKE A PYRAMID, as you go higher, the newcomer consultant can go up the pyramid though, that is the issue), and i was not dropping a dime on this company, as i was watching every move, by every person. And this man was just like me, and he is planning on paying for my start up. This made me more suspicious of this company, since very little is known, and explained, such as how it actually works. The benefits are so suspect, where do they get this money to do such things, and how? Very little was justified at this "meeting" yet there was potential. This company's opportunity is a giant dilemma since it works like a pyramid, yet the bottom worker can reach heights to no limit, since it depends how much you work, and how you work. Now the authenticity of these people's stories of success, are easily questioned since pyramid schemes involve these people, and thats why its hard to discriminate the people who work there, from the new people, since some of them look so normal just like us. Yes there is much to argue about you know scam artists, and the future of the company, and the actual reality of the benefits, you will never really know unless you get someone who used to work for them, or some type of primary source, not propaganda, or some type of gossip, because of course you can have con men, scammers, and shit in your business, damn they are everywhere if you think about it. These people need to run a buisness and it will be done no matter what. Even if they don't rightously make their money that does not mean that no one wants to be a part of the giant scam, it only matters if people are making money from it, if they are a part of it, and thats why they dont say things that can jepordize what they have. Overall, i wish i could come down to a simple conclusion ,but its not that easy, you have to see to believe, and actually be there to know whether this is actually legit or not, there are college professors who are new to it, i spoke to them, i hope they arent actors, cuz if they are they are damn good to get college IDs about their profession. The senior consultant is paying for me, he said because he earned enough money to not care about it, and we related coming from harlem, and etc. Im not dropping a dime, is it really just any ol' pyramid scheme?, or is it something we are just denying and brushing off for the simple fact people are scared of things like this? Noone knows enough to make a truly valid point about this. I dont hear any stories of failure.
P.S the guys about no phone, or electricity. yr right about the facts, or predictions. Yet you are jackasses and cavemen for even conceiving living without phones, or electricity. Try buring candles, and sending mail all day. Besides who the hell cares about 7-11 i live in NYC. Again besides who the hell cares about bob pearson, as long as you can make money from this, thats all that matters. Later

 
At 9:39 AM, Blogger Luis said...

Do you know someone who uses electricity? Will they like to pay less? If you could get paid month by month by saving them money, would you?This is not for everyone, if you dont like MLM dont try it, but why not save a few bucks a month as a customer? Ambit guarantees a discount over COnEd if you stay on for a year. In Texas I have customers saving up to 30% off their previous supplier. You have to be dumb for not wanting the savings and dumber for not trying this business for a small amount they charge for the franchise fee. I got my investment back in 9 days and have been doing money ever since. Residuals havent kicked on yet,it takes like 3 months to strat getting them , but as new consultants get in, they each gather new customers who get a lower price, free travel and by referring new customers they can win free cruise ship excursions. How much your current provider gives you back. This is a great business, no inventories, no billing, but plenty to earn. 3 states are on Ambit and all 50 will eventually hop on. Are you pleased with what you earn right now?If not try the Ambit business.Go to www.kilovoltio.ambitenergy.biz and see for yourself

 
At 11:03 PM, Blogger Gringcorp said...

I'm going to leave the comments by these stooges up, until it starts feeling too spammy. It will, if nothing else, give you a feeling for how these pitches work.

 
At 2:10 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

EveryOne must be entitled to their own opinion. Your blog has successfully communicated that Ambit has potential and I am going to sign up for it because after three hours of digging for dirt on or against Ambit, all i found was this blog ? HA Clean million here I come

 
At 10:07 AM, Blogger Gringcorp said...

You'll note, my hungry Ambit-monger, that my original post merely referenced whether Ambit was an interesting proposition for the electricity consumer, and it does indeed have potential, if you're the sort of person with the time to spend clipping coupons, signing up for trial offers, and staying on top of your outgoings. If, say, you're an experienced credit card arbitrageur then go ahead and make a few bucks a month getting your 'leccy from Ambit. But these savings are financed through commissions from pyramid salesmen, and I've had no indications that there's any other secret to its success. If you're a particularly good marketer, then good luck to you. You'll need it.

 
At 12:13 AM, Anonymous Dr. Jahbin Li said...

All I have to say to the people who are trying to bash Ambit Energy is that the "facts" that you spit out about how Ambit is fake is all made-up mumbo-jumbo...

You can bash the company and the people who are in it all day long, but at the end of every day Ambit pays me, saves my friends, family, and a countless number of people I don't even know personally a good chunk of money on our gas and electric bills...

I was the president of a small printing company for 36 years until I retired... And I learned a lot about business!

Hell, I know a great business model when I see it and Ambit takes the cake! I'm not saying it's easy. It takes dedication, time, money, and lots of work to grow any good business and that’s a fact. Let me tell you though, the start up cost for almost any other business is a lot more then what Ambit charged me... It makes me laugh that some people think $400 and $20 a month is a lot of money... get real...!!!

People please...!!! Investing money to start a company is only stupid if the risk is higher then the actual investment itself...

Let me give you a word of advice. If you ever want make it big in this world you have to take some chances, stop letting people think for you, look at the opportunities that are placed in front of you, and decide if it's worth a taking a chances... But for God's sake, stop bashing a company you know nothing about and even more so... STOP BASHING MLM!

I live in Kildeer, IL and once upon a time taught classes at UIC downtown. My class was about Corporate Marketing, Network Marketing, and Small business. And quite frankly; Network Marketing it's one of the best business models a company can have if it is set up right... And not just for the company itself, but even more so for the "consultants!"

And one more thing, stop getting your facts from the Internet exclusively. Very little on the internet is published and most of what you read is only opinion. It shows in your writing…

I don’t care how much you dislike Ambit Energy and think it’s a scam, if you don’t get your facts in order you wont convince anyone…

 
At 4:12 PM, Blogger Gringcorp said...

The only person trying to bash Ambit is me. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: it offers small savings to the consumer, has the potential to make a few salesmen rich, is going to end in tears, and IS ABSOLUTELY NO WAY TO RUN AN ELECTRICITY MARKET. If the only flagbearers for competitive supply arrangements are IDT Energy and Ambit we're all doomed.

 
At 12:41 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

SCAM

 
At 1:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I would just like to add that 2 months ago here in Illinois I got started with Ambit's opportunity and just 2 months later it has paid me back my investment and then some. I haven't made a million dollars yet but I hope to be in a good place 2 years down the line. Everyone I talk to is very receptive about the customer savings and benefits, and so far all the new customers I have signed up are very pleased. The biggest confusion people have is the reliability of the service. Really Ambit coming into the picture is just an Administrative change because delivery, meter reading and service issues still fall on the incumbent as it normally would be. People have to get used to a new mindset for companies. We are all used to corporations trying to rip us off at every turn. Now there is a new mindset and it's about helping people and earning peoples business through a great benefits system. Jere Thompson Jr. who is Ambit's CEO laid out the vision which is to be the finest and most respected energy provider in the U.S. and their key long-term partnerships and patented billing and energy purchasing systems allow for them to guarantee the savings to the customers. In fact Shell actually came to Ambit for a partnership because they knew Ambit was on to something good. Donald Trump actually recently visited Ambit's headquarters in Dallas and was so impressed he put in the trump blog. So anyway you want to look at it, the fact is people are making money, people are saving money and I commend the founders of Ambit for structuring their business like this and offering an opportunity like this especially in these economic times to ordinary people to go out and help others and change their lives around.

 
At 4:34 PM, Blogger Gringcorp said...

You got in at the top of the pyramid. Congratulations. As soon as Ambit stops bringing in those upfront payments from its own salesmen the savings it can offer will evaporate. Enjoy it while it lasts, big man.

 
At 12:21 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Pay us and then you MIGHT make money after hitting all of your friends and family up.....

Horse Shit...

 
At 4:57 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Negative Nancy's... All of you. You probably all live at home and are just bitter because you will never exceed further than you will allow yourself = the real issue here.

I assume you will always be working for the man, and never be your own boss.

 
At 1:51 AM, Blogger Eric said...

I think you guys got it twisted. Pyramid schemes are illegal in the United States. The only legal pyramid scheme is your job. Think about it. You do all the work and the owner is making the most profits. In Ambit I can join after you and surpass you in growth and rank.

 
At 3:32 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tell me how it is a scam. I have read scam numerous times in these posts but not one person has said how it is a scam. If you make your money back and more how can it be a scam. When you enjoy a movie such as Avatar and refer it to many people who spend hard earned money to watch it you have essentially done the same thing as a pyramid. (MLM) The difference is you have not made any money. MLM works if done responsibly. Oh by the way the only thing you can do is pick on someone's typo to make them look bad giving no facts to your scam hypothesis makes you look even worse. Talk to customers and get the facts straight. In every business there is a percentage of dissatisfied customers because you can never please everyone. Try something new besides bashing things you have no facts about.

 
At 9:07 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you want to keep GETTTING WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN GETTING, just KEEP DOING WHAT YOU HAE BEEN DOING, I mean you must like it right? Quit whining and keep paying. You seem to enjoy the rate you have. Oh, I guess they won't give you a diamond ring and a catalac? tisk tisk - pooey on them!

 
At 6:24 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

For all you Ambit fan boys, the person who made your dreams of deregulation come true was a man by the name of Kenneth Lay...one of the founders of ENRON

Obviously Ambit has a noble cause just as Lay did right?

 
At 4:10 PM, Anonymous Arron Johnson said...

Ambit Energy is a great opportunity for people looking save on their energy cost and at the same time help others save on their energy costs. Currently Ambit is the #1 Top earning company as per INC 500 Magazine. Do I need to say any more?

We just made a major announcement of expanding markets and we are now able to offer the same savings opportunity to small businesses in TX.

I can go on and on about how great Ambit Energy is. Three thumbs up .. oops sorry I only have two thumbs.

Email me at info@anc-energy.com or visit my website at http://bit.ly/9Vn3kR for additional info.

 
At 9:06 PM, Blogger Reana said...

I realize this post is pretty ancient, but thank you for making it and bless you for dealing with all these insane spam comments for the benefit of others.

Having dealt with a scam company or two in my life I have to wonder...will they ever bother to recruit anyone literate? All these "anonymous" posters are making pro-Ambit pitches that are barely understandable. Can they not find someone who can string a sentence together to go and spam everyone that points out obvious flaws or dubious concerns in Ambit's organization?

Or how about at least someone that can use spell check? I used it a few times typing this! Technology is amazing that way.

Thanks again Gringcorp for the good info.

 
At 7:22 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

People criticize what they do not understand. I made a lot of money with a company called STS and again with Excel when phones deregulated. I now have an Ambit Energy business and it is going well. I do not care what people say about it being a pyramid. Those same people will be a part of the 95%ers ... they will wake up like Bill Murray in Groundhog Day and keep doing the same thing day after day. For some that is their lofty goal in life and power to you... for me and many others... we see an opportunity to help save customers some on their energy needs and give them vacations (not time share packages by the way as one person here mentioned) REAL vacations. I run my business like I run my other businesses (not direct marketing types). I run them treating people with respect and compassion ... do I expect to make a million dollars ... no .. that said... I work closely with the #6 earner in the company see monthly that it can be done. I got in 2 yrs after him and I am building every day ... every week.. you get out what you put in... so if your failing... look at your system... or look in the mail. I work closely with my personals and talk to my customers often .. treat them right and they will learn and succeed too

 
At 10:32 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I went to an Ambit presentation tonight. All the speakers were... ghetto. As I listened, I thought, "poor schmucks, they have no clue this is a pyramid scheme." It was rather obvious to me.

 
At 10:10 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Interesting (to me) and related information about what a pyramid scheme actually is, from the FTC's point of view.

http://www.ftc.gov/speeches/other/dvimf16.shtm

 
At 11:08 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I only know about Ambit because of two guys I grew up with. One was in jail for selling steroids and the other was pretty much a loser. Now they're "Executive Consultants" for Ambit. Yeah, this company is legit...

 
At 11:59 AM, Blogger jojostar said...

I happen to have totally researched: deregulation, AMBIT energy and network marketing...I have also decided to give my supply end of my energy to AMBIT ENERGY.. this is the greatest thing that has happened to this country since the dereg of the telecom...THIS IS NOT A SCAM...I AM saving money...I even got a FREE HOTEL STAY on AMBIT...I plan on going on a cruise very soon (everytime I pay my bill, I accumulate vacation points; just like a credit card!!!) there is NO DOWNSIDE TO AMBIT ENERGY!!!

 
At 1:54 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You people should really pull your head out of your ASS!!! It is really smelly in there and your oxgyen level goes down if you do not breath. Ambitis no more a scam than any other business they are all set up as a pyramid they start with a CEO and at the bottom is a employee. This is called business or corporate structure. They are a great company that offer good savings. And the savings are guaranteed at least where I live. So you really should do A BIT OF RESEARCH BEFORE YOU SPEEK. In todays times I look to save money where I can and when ever I can. GET A LIFE

 
At 11:11 PM, Blogger Venom said...

People are so dumb...every ten or so years a new pyramid scheme comes around that makes a couple people rich...Your $400 upfront fee and your $20 a month is what is providing 7% first year savings then 1-2% after that...do the math!
How many sheep sign up as a rep a year? Multiply that number by $400 then by $20 X 12 for each consultant.
Now take the amount of people signed up as a consumer and give them an average bill of $300 every 2 months...subtract 7% and you get a savings of $21...but you are paying $40 during that same period as a consultant!

Some scam...

 
At 11:13 PM, Blogger Venom said...

How many of you here are required to pay your job to work for them?

 
At 12:33 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

A relative just told me about Ambit. My first and largest question about it is:

How is selling electricity at the retail level enhanced for the customer by having a MLM setup grafted between the energy producer and the user? It's just added cost and waste. Senseless, and certainly has the scent of Enron hanging around it.

 

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